Door karma4: Door Anoniem: Je bedoelt de volgende quote van Benajmin Franklin:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Precies het tegenovergestelde van wat jij hier claimt :-)
Nope het is precies zoals ik het stelde en omgedraaid aan hetgeen privacyvoorvechters met hun newspeak doen.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin Benjamin Franklin één van de Founding Fathers wegens de belastingperikelen van Pennsylvania stond aan de kant van de overheid tegen William Penn. (naamgever Pennsylvania) omdat die geen belasting wilden betalen voor veilig stellen van de gebieden van de kolonisten.
In iets meer detail:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin#Political_work_in_London "In 1757, many members of the Pennsylvania Assembly were feuding with William Penn's heirs, who controlled the colony as proprietors. After his return to the colony, Franklin led the "anti-proprietary party" in the struggle against the Penn family, and was elected Speaker of the Pennsylvania House in May 1764.
His call for a change from proprietary to royal government was a rare political miscalculation, however: Pennsylvanians worried that such a move
would endanger their political and religious freedoms. Because of these fears, and because of political attacks on his character, Franklin lost his seat in the October 1764 Assembly elections.
The anti-proprietary party dispatched Franklin to England again to continue the struggle against the Penn family proprietorship. During this trip, events drastically changed the nature of his mission.
In London, Franklin opposed the 1765 Stamp Act. Unable to prevent its passage, he made another political miscalculation and recommended a friend to the post of stamp distributor for Pennsylvania. Pennsylvanians were outraged, believing that he had supported the measure all along, and threatened to destroy his home in Philadelphia. Franklin soon learned of the extent of colonial resistance to the Stamp Act, and he testified during the House of Commons proceedings that led to its repeal.
Whilst in London,
Franklin became involved in radical politics. Franklin also managed to secure an appointed post for his illegitimate son, William Franklin, by then an attorney, as Colonial Governor of New Jersey."
Als je een verhaal vertelt, probeer dan iets vollediger te zijn.
Door karma4: Het verdraaien van de waarheid dat is de kern van de vertelsels van Eric Arthur Blair.
Met de kolonisten tegen de fransen en indianen heb je een andere trieste waarheid. Kolonialen die onder het mom van vrijheid de werkelijke lokale bevolking in gevechten van alles afhandig maakt.
Amerikanen namen Indianen alles afhandig. Maar dat deden de Engelsen en de Fransen ook. En de Engelsen namen ook veel af van de Amerikanen. Veroordeel je nu de Amerikanen? Diezelfde Amerikanen die je gebruikt om je stelling te onderbouwen?
Door karma4: En dan is daar nog de quote van Thomas Jefferson:
Mr. Jefferson, the great apostle of human rights, has told us, that "the price of Liberty is eternal vigilance."
ook wel: John Philpot Curran's statement, "The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_slavery Een slaveneigenaar als de apostel van gelijkheid van mensenrechten. Hij zag een constant etnisch conflict en geen gelijkheid.
De verwijzing naar John Philpot Curran vind ik verrassend. Het springt naar de Ierse vrijheidsstrijd tegen de engelsen.
"In 1797 he was condemned as "the leading advocate of every murderer, ruffian and low villain"."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Philpot_Curran 1.Benjamin Franklin heeft ook slaven gehouden:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin#Slavery "Franklin owned as many as seven slaves, two males who worked in his household and his shop. Franklin posted paid ads for the sale of slaves and for the capture of runaway slaves and allowed the sale of slaves in his general store. Franklin profited from both the international and domestic slave trade, even criticizing slaves who had run off to join the British Army during the colonial wars of the 1740s and 1750s.
Franklin, however, later became a "cautious abolitionist" and became an outspoken critic of landed gentry slavery.
After returning from England in 1762, Franklin became more anti-slavery. By 1770, Franklin had freed his slaves and attacked the system of slavery and the international slave trade. Franklin, however, refused to publicly debate the issue of slavery at the 1787 Constitutional Convention. Franklin tended to take both sides of the issue of slavery, never fully divesting himself from the institution."
2. Was de Amerikaanse revolutie niet ook een opstand tegen het "rechtmatige gezag" (Engeland).
Hoeveel moorden en andere misdaden zullen
beide partijen wel niet begaan hebben?
3. De Engelsen zijn ook geen lieverdjes geweest gedurende bezetting van Ierland en later Noord-Ierland.
Door karma4: Wil je nu zeggen dat het AP overal bezetters kolonisten ziet met een falende rechtspraak waarbij zij als het AP een strijd tegen de overheid moeten voeren.
Het zou verklaren waar nogal wat rare privacy kronkels bij het AP vandaan komen. Helaas is dat iets waardoor ze een bedreiging van privacy geworden zijn.
Nee, ik probeer je duidelijk te maken dat er nu best wel maatregelen nodig zijn ivm het coronoa-virus. Maar dat er voor gewaakt moet worden dat dit geen permanente maatregelen worden.
Jij bent degene die privacy voorvechters wegzet als criminelen.
- Jij concludeerd dat de rechtspraak faalt als het niet doet wat jij wilt dat ze doet. (bv overheid kan niet uitleggen hoe een algoritme werkt, recht verbiedt het, jij beschuldigd rechter van incompetentie ipv de overheids-advocaten)
- Jij beschuldigd het AP van beschermen van crininelen (want jouw redenatie "als je privacy wilt hebben, dan moet je wel iets crimineels te verbergen hebben")
Door karma4: Die eternal vigilance is waar het AP en ik op wijzen, om geen slaven van een toekomstige dictatuur te worden
]Jouw 1984 om precies te zijn.
Je haalt wat handige uitspraken uit het verleden uit hun context en maakt er een nieuwe waarheid van.
Dat is exact wat big brother in het 1984 verhaal tot een dictatuur bracht. Werk je op het ministerie van de waarheid?
Uit wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(Nineteen_Eighty-Four)#Portrayal_in_the_novel"In the novel, it is never made clear whether Big Brother is or had been a real person, or is a fictional personification of the Party, similar to Britannia and Uncle Sam.
Big Brother is referred to as infallible and all-powerful. No one has ever seen him and there is a reasonable certainty that he will never die. He is simply "the guise in which the Party chooses to exhibit itself to the world" since the emotions of love, fear and reverence are more easily focused on an individual than an organisation.
When Winston Smith is later arrested, O'Brien repeats that Big Brother will never die. When Smith asks if Big Brother exists, O'Brien describes him as "the embodiment of the Party" and says that he will exist as long as the Party exists. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Background"After the Second World War, the United Kingdom became involved in a war during the early 1950s in which nuclear weapons destroyed hundreds of cities in Europe, western Russia and North America.
Britain fell into civil war, with street fighting in London, before the English Socialist Party, abbreviated as Ingsoc, emerged victorious and formed a totalitarian government in Britain. The British Commonwealth and Latin America were absorbed by the United States, resulting in the superstate of Oceania. Ingsoc became the sole government party in this new nation.
Simultaneously, the Soviet Union conquered continental Europe and established the second superstate of Eurasia, under a Neo-Bolshevik regime.
The third superstate of Eastasia emerged in the Far East after another decade of fighting, with a ruling ideology translated from Chinese as 'Death-Worship' or 'Obliteration of the Self'.
The three superstates wage perpetual war for the remaining unconquered lands of the world in "a rough quadrilateral with its corners at Tangier, Brazzaville, Darwin, and Hong Kong" through constantly shifting alliances.
Although each of the three states are said to have sufficient natural resources, the war continues to maintain ideological control over the people.
While citizens in each state are trained to despise the ideologies of the other two as uncivilised and barbarous, Goldstein's book, The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism, explains that in fact the superstates' ideologies are practically identical and that the public's ignorance of this fact is imperative so that they might continue believing otherwise. The only references to the exterior world for the Oceanian citizenry (the Outer Party and the Proles) are Ministry of Truth maps and propaganda to ensure their belief in "the war".
However, due to the fact that Winston barely remembers these events and due to the Party's manipulation of historical records, the continuity and accuracy of these events are unknown."
De Staat controleert, monitort en beinvloed haar bevolking. Dat doet zij om aan de macht te blijven.
Mensen zijn tot een nummer verworden. Individualiteit wordt onderdrukt en de Staat is alles. Privacy bestaat niet meer. De Staat controleert alles, ook je prive-leven (in je woning).
Ja, ik heb ook e.e.a. gelezen (oa. George Orwell's 1984, Harry Harrison's To The Stars, en The Federalist) en gezien (oa. 1984, Brazil, en The Prisoner)